Conversing Over the Gap: A Meeting Between Different Perspectives
Meeting the Participants
One Diner: P., 34, London
Profession Former civil servant, currently a learner studying community health
Political history Voted Green recently (and a member of the party); formerly Labour Party. Identifies as “left, and internationalist instead of nationalist”
Amuse bouche A drawing of a teacup Peter created as a kid was once hung in the National Gallery of Ireland
Second Participant: A., 43, Harrow
Occupation Risk analyst in the construction sector
Political history Hailing from India, he has lived in the United Kingdom for five years, and voted the Conservative Party. Describes himself as “somewhat right of centre”
Amuse bouche He taught himself to read and write Urdu. “It has no practical use for me, I simply found it intriguing”
Initial impressions
Akshat Over the last 20 years, I’ve lived and worked in the Middle East, East Asia, the United States. The topics Peter and I talked about are UK-centric, but they are also universal, because human life more or less evolve similarly wherever it is. I was expecting someone very liberal, but he was quite measured – we engaged in a good, rational discussion. I had a couple of beers, Peter had mojitos.
The second participant We split starters – seafood rolls, steamed buns, radish cakes with sprouts, which were excellent. I felt somewhat anxious, as I think Akshat was. Was he going to attack me for being a snowflake? We each have immigrant backgrounds. I grew up in Dublin; I’ve lived in the US and the Iberian Peninsula. We connected through our affection for the capital.
The big beef
Akshat I view immigration like adding salt to a dish. When you add a little bit, the dish is delicious. Use too little or too much and the dish is either too bland or too salty.
Peter Akshat used an analogy about salt. It would be odd to be if the state was choosing some ideal ethnic makeup of the country.
Akshat There are, sadly, individuals escaping oppression, but a lot of people arriving in the UK are those seeking better finances who may not add significant value and can burden the benefit system. No one compels you to move to a new country for opportunity, so you should only go if you can take care of your own needs and your family.
The second participant We became confused with certain details. In my view it is the case that you come over and work and then following a half-decade you get indefinite leave to remain. No process is guaranteed. The climate has been unwelcoming for some time, application costs are quite expensive, you pay an NHS surcharge, access to benefits is limited. There is no special treatment for anyone. And concerning the recent changes, under which you can’t bring your family over, it is astonishing to state: we desire your labor, but we reject you as a person. I think we have to have a degree of compassion.
Sharing plate
The first participant Peter’s sceptical of unregulated markets. So am I, but at the same time, wealth creation helps communities and ought to be promoted.
The second participant We’re both internationalist. And we agreed that some parts of society – politics, the media – benefit from stoking division. We discovered common ground in basic principles and values.
Dessert and debate
The first participant Peter believes that because the UK profited from the colonial era, it should pay compensation to affected nations. My view is simply: it is unfair to assess the past with present day morality; times are different, current society had no control of what happened 50 or 100 years ago. Let’s say the UK had to compensate the Indian nation, it would be a huge amount of funds. Is Britain able to manage that? Certainly not.
The second participant In the past, I don’t think there was much reckoning with colonial history. For example, upon my arrival to the United Kingdom, people had little knowledge of the Irish famine and the part that colonialism contributed to it. My view is decolonization is not merely about signing a cheque, it ought to involve examining what went wrong and our current responsibilities.
Takeaways
The first participant It won’t change the way I think, but I appreciate Peter’s concerns. I converse with individuals regularly with opinions are contrary to mine. It’s about bringing everyone to the same page, so that everyone can strive for the betterment of society.
Peter We were there for 150 minutes. He enjoyed a sweet treat and I had some sweet Japanese wine. I didn’t persuade him of any point, but we each liked dinner, so we might become more receptive to having conversations with others in the coming times.
